[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello and welcome to episode number 645 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. We are doing our end-of-year interviews with all of you! This week we are going to hear from Carrie, Jenna, Melissa, Lisa, Josephine, and Cara. They’re going to give book recommendations; they’ve got wishes; we’ve got bad jokes; it’s going to be fun. This episode will take us on a tour of much of the United States, from California to Maryland to Houston to Atlanta and Ohio, and it’s really lovely to connect with all of you. Thank you so much. We had a record number of people sign up to do interviews this year.

As always, thank you to the Patreon community for keeping me going. Every episode has a hand-compiled transcript from garlicknitter – hey, garlicknitter! – [hey back atcha! – gk] – because of the Patreon! And you’re making sure that every episode is accessible, and you keep me going, so thank you. And of course if you’re in the Patreon, you get to participate in episodes like this one, so if you’d like to join, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches.

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All right, are you ready to take a tour around the United States and get an absolute bucket of recommendations? It’s time for another round of end-of-year wishes and recs. On with the podcast.

[music]

Carrie Sessarego: My name is Carrie Sessarego, you can find me on Smart Bitches as Carrie S, and I live in Sacramento, California.

Sarah: You’ve been on several of these episodes. It’s nice to have you back!

Carrie: Thank you! It’s nice to be back!

Sarah: All right! What book do you want to recommend to everyone that you read this year, or books if you’ve brought more than one?

Carrie: [Gasps] We can do books plural? Oh, I’m so glad. Okay, so, one of them was actually a reread, but it was so good that I do want people to know about it, and that is An Immense World by Ed Yong, I believe it’s pronounced. It’s Y-O-N-G.

Sarah: Uh-huh.

Carrie: And it is a nonfiction about the ways that sensory organs work in different animals, but it’s written in a very entertaining way, and it’s also written in a way that will really change the way you perceive the world around you and the animals around you. He also wrote another book called I Contain Multitudes, which is about the organisms that live on and inside the human body? And that’s another one where it’s not hard to read, it’s very entertaining, it’s very accessible, but it changes your worldview. Like, you, suddenly you start seeing everything differently than you did before, and that, to me, is just, like, so exciting.

Sarah: That’s so cool!

Carrie: So I guess that’s two books by the same author. They’re amazing.

And then I just, I also really liked Bury Your Gays by Chuck Tingle, and I bring that up because –

Sarah: Oh, good pick! Good pick!

Carrie: – I reviewed his, his book Camp Damascus, and I felt like it kind of had a little bit of starter syndrome, and I feel like – but it was, it was good, but it had some rough spots – but I felt like Bury Your Gays was a lot more, a lot more polished. And it was really cool, and I think people will really enjoy it.

Sarah: Oh, that’s awesome.

Carrie: And then the last book that I’m going to recommend – and by the way, no matter how much I looked, all of these books are from like 2023 or before, except for, I think Bury Your Gays is 2024. I just finished Shark Heart like two nights ago, and it is by Emily Habeck, and it is just so beautiful, and it’s, it’s heartbreaking, and it’s joyful, and it’s, it’s another book that’s written in a way that kind of changes the way you think about the world around you and see the world around you.

Now, I don’t know what’s going on with me, but none of those books are romance novels. I’ve been in a little bit of a romance slump lately, but Shark Heart involves a really, really beautiful love story, but I would definitely not call it a romance novel. But those, those three books are very, very different books, but I really enjoyed all three of them.

Sarah: What are your wishes for 2025?

Carrie: Okay, so I really struggled with that because there’s a lot happening for me right now, and I think there’s a lot happening for everybody right now, and I was going to come up with something and write it down, and I couldn’t write anything down, so I don’t know. I thought about – but I thought a lot about hope and peace and justice and how sometimes peace and justice are in a tug-of-war, and sometimes they work together, and I thought about how hope is a radical act and rest is a radical act of resistance. Rest Is Resistance is the title of another of my favorite books. I hope that this year people will continue to hope and that they will continue to rest, but I also hope that they will continue to take action, because I think that without hope you don’t bother taking action. But I also don’t want us to just sit around and, like, ask our hopes and prayers. And for me personally, I’ve been struggling in many arenas with what is the right thing to do? And I hope that all of us maybe will get some guidance from whatever source we get our guidance from about what is the right thing to do. I, I hope that our actions will be worthwhile, good actions that will make the world better and not worse.

Sarah: Fair enough. Those are good wishes. I agree. And rest is very important. Rest is extremely important. I have to remind myself of that constantly.

Carrie: Yeah! Yeah!

Sarah: So did you bring a joke? It is okay if you did not.

Carrie: I did! I googled fourth-grade jokes, and I got some – oh my God, they’re so bad…

Sarah: I’m so excited!

Carrie: So here’s one I feel is relevant to our paranormal romance readers.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Carrie: Where do werewolves buy presents?

Sarah: Where do werewolves buy presents?

Carrie: You give up? Do you give up? Do you give up?

Sarah: I give up.

Carrie: At Beast Buy!

[Laughter]

Sarah: I had not gotten there. That’s great!

Carrie: Get it? Get it? [Laughs more] Get it? Get it?

And also, because I’m a nerd and I recommended a nonfiction science book – two nonfiction science books – I’ll throw in a bonus.

Why don’t scientists trust atoms?

Sarah: Why don’t –

Carrie: Do you give up? Do you give up?

Sarah: – scientists trust atoms? Why?

Carrie: Because they make everything up.

[Laughter]

Carrie: Do you get it? Do you get it? Do you get it? Do you get it?

Sarah: I do, I do!

Carrie: I’m glad you get it. Okay.

Sarah: That’s very well done. Thank you!

Carrie: You’re welcome! Thank you for giving me the opportunity to google fourth-grade jokes.

Sarah: Listen, it’s the best part of my week when I’m doing the podcast, so thank you for that.

Carrie: Absolutely!

[music]

Sarah: Hello! Oh, you’re muted. There you are! Unmute!

Jenna Grinstead: Hello. How are you?

Sarah: I’m, I’m good! How are you? Thank you for doing this!

Jenna: Oh my gosh, thank you so much for having me. This is my favorite thing. I’m so happy that you do this.

Sarah: Yay! It, it is really fun for me too.

Jenna: Hi, I’m Jenna Grinstead, and I am in Columbus, Ohio.

Sarah: So what book or books do you want to recommend to everyone that you read this year?

Jenna: I have a couple recommendations. So, got a little bit into cozies this year, which have not normally been my reading, but I’ve really enjoyed. So I, there’s this series called the Merry March series by Eileen Curley Hammond that I really recommend. The first one is called Murder So Sinful, and the last one, which I read them all this year, is called Murder So Fiendish, which takes place on a cruise ship?

Sarah: Oooh!

Jenna: The, the, the main character, Merry March, is an insurance agent who keeps getting pulled into these small-town murders that she has to solve, and in the first book she’s trying to kind of reset her life after her ex-husband does like a Bernie Madoff and runs off with half the town’s money, so she’s –

Sarah: Ohhh!

Jenna: It’s just really fun, and I really enjoyed it, so I would recommend that for sure.

Sarah: And they’re, they’re in Kindle Unlimited, which is great if you want to try them.

Jenna: Yes! Yes, they are. And so they’re super fun.

Kind of staying with the cozies but paranormal cozy, I just read, like it recently released, Cursed Companions by Barb Hopkins and Kelly Garcia? And that’s fun. It’s like a cozy with two best friends, sort of magical objects, and archaeology? And there is kind of like a little bit of a mystery and a small-town vibe, and so I really, really enjoyed that. So that –

Sarah: I love the cover of that one!

Jenna: Isn’t it so pretty?

Sarah: Also in KU, but the cover is like deep, deep blue with all of these stars and, and icons all over it. It’s gorgeous!

Jenna: It’s a really pretty cover. And, and just also a, I love the kind of like delving into the world of archaeology, and then the way the paranormal kind of piece comes in with witches. It’s, it’s really fun.

Sarah: And this is the Chronicles of a Cursed Midwife series? Or Midlife! Cursed Midlife!

Jenna: Yes.

Sarah: I can read.

Jenna: Very excited about that one.

And then, you know, I know this is a really popular book, but I just adored Ali Hazelwood’s Bride this year? It felt like the old time paranormals, like a good old, like, Jeaniene Frost; like, Charlaine Harris kind of feel, but it had, like, that voice-y Ali Hazelwood thing to it?

Sarah: Yep.

Jenna: And I think it’s like officially my favorite book I’ve ever read at this moment? So.

Sarah: That’s great!

Jenna: Definitely had a lot of fun with that.

I’m also a huge Lexi Blake fan and really love her Bliss series, which are a little bit reverse harem fun, and her, her latest one, which is called Wild Bliss, just released not too long ago, and I, it was really fun. The Bliss series is sort of always a little taste of murder, a little town in Colorado that’s sort of like spunky, funny. The, you know, old guy who believes in aliens kind of thing. It’s, it’s one of my favorites, and I had a lot of fun with it.

Sarah: That series, if I am reading this right, that series has fourteen books in it?

Jenna: It does!

Sarah: That’ll keep you occupied.

Jenna: And they’re –

Sarah: If you –

Jenna: – all amazing.

Sarah: Oh, yes! So what is the first one called, so I can write it down? Three to Ride. Oh, I’m sure that’s not erotic at all! No, of course not!

Jenna: Probably should be like a little sizzle warning on these? But –

Sarah: I mean, it’s Lexi Blake. Lexi Blake writes spicy stuff, you know?

Jenna: She does, and she’s awesome!

And then the last one, I kind of wanted to, I wanted to share it like it’s a little bit of a PSA, and I, I know that, I think I heard that you converted to Judaism in one of your interviews –

Sarah: Oh yes!

Jenna: – so, you know –

Sarah: Yes, many years ago.

Jenna: – could see if you agree with me or not, if you want to cut this or not, but everybody’s, like, all in love with the Netflix show Nobody Wants This?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Jenna: And so I loved that show in a way from the sense of, like, it just had great rom-com beats. So…

Sarah: Oh!…other after the other, yes.

Jenna: And the rom-com reader in me loved it, but, like, the Jewish woman in me was like, Can we just have a little bit of, like, non-stereotypical Jewish women and so, just as, like, a PSA for the people who loved that, no judgment, ‘cause it did hit the rom-com beats, I would just love to recommend The Intimacy Experiment by Rosie Danan –

Sarah: Oh –

Jenna: – as like a…

Sarah: – good rec.

Jenna: – your moment of enjoying that to maybe also enjoying some romance with the rabbi where we have some three-dimensional Jewish women.

Sarah: Yes! I completely agree. I love, I love the recommendation of The Intimacy Experiment. I think that’s going to be, I think that’s going to be a book that has real longevity, because it keeps coming up, and it’s sex-positive, and it’s interfaith, and it portrays Judaism in a cultural and organizational – like, it’s just so cool. I’m so glad that book is, just keeps on going.

What are your wishes for 2025?

Jenna: I would love to wish for us to just all be a little more tolerant of each other. All be a little more tolerant and, in the nicest way, just mind our own business.

Sarah: Ye-hess!

Jenna: Let people marry who they want; let people be who they want to be; let them live the way they want to live; and, like, if we could just make that more normalized and just be accepting, that would be amazing. I would be so glad for that.

Sarah: I completely agree. Let people do their things. Let people be.

Jenna: Do that, please.

Sarah: Yes.

Now, do you have a bad joke? It is okay if you do not.

Jenna: I do, and it’s book-themed, so.

Sarah: I love it! Tell me everything.

Jenna: Where do books like to sleep?

Sarah: Where do books like to sleep? Where?

Jenna: Under their covers.

Sarah: [Laughs] I did not get that one. Nice! Thank you!

And thank you for doing this. I really appreciate you signing up. It’s really nice to talk to everybody and talk to you again!

Jenna: Thank you, and thank you so much for everything you do. I signed up for the After Dark and am really enjoying it, and I loved the –

Sarah: Thank you!

Jenna: – review you and Amanda did on that, and I know we’re not really best friends, but in my mind we are, ‘cause we spend a lot of time together, so thank you.

Sarah: [Laughs] That is enormously flattering, actually; thank you. I’m honored to keep you company, and I’m glad to meet you over the, over the Zoom for, for this. It is really nice to know how many people bring me into their homes and are, like, so excited to tell me about that, so thank you; that just makes my whole day.

[music]

Melissa: I am Melissa, and I am from Silver Spring, Maryland.

Sarah: So what book do you want to recommend to people that you read this year – or books; people have brought two, and I am not mad.

Melissa: Yeah, I decided on a new read and a reread.

Sarah: Ooh, good one! Good call!

Melissa: Yeah. So the new read was the new Claire Kann, Looking for Love in All the Haunted Places? And it was just so much fun. The main lead is on, she’s on this TV show and has to live in this haunted house for a week, and then she’s falling in love with the host and producer of the show, and she’s just really good at writing just really lovely conversations, so it’s just like a delight to see them talk through things and fall in love together.

Sarah: What, you mean, you mean there’s adults who talk about their feelings and communicate clearly and have good conversations? That’s so, that’s, that’s so hot.

Melissa: Yeah! And it, like, didn’t fall into the trap of therapy-speak, too. Like, it was like realistically –

Sarah: Ohhh.

Melissa: – so talking through things. [Laughs]

Sarah: Like, it didn’t sound like two expert communicators were reading a script of conflict resolution.

Melissa: Yeah, yeah, and then the main lead is ace, so, like, trying to navigate, like, how she feels comfortable and what exactly they want to be together was, like, really lovely to see.

Sarah: Thank you for that recommendation! What is your other one?

Melissa: My reread is The Calculating Stars by Mary Robinette Kowal. The fourth one is coming out next year, so, like, when I saw that I was immediately like, Oh, I’m just going to reread them, I’m going to savor them, and I flew through them in a couple of weeks.

[Laughter]

Sarah: Are they good rereads? Do you like rereading them? Is this your first reread of the series?

Melissa: Yes, it’s my first reread. So I read them physically the first time round, so I read them with her narration this time, and her narration –

Sarah: Oh!

Melissa: – was phenomenal.

Sarah: She’s very good.

Melissa: Yeah, ‘cause it’s, like, set in like ‘50s, ‘60s, so it’s like a slightly transcontinental accent but like with the Southern ‘cause the, she’s from the, South Carolina, so, like, that accent was something that I hadn’t, like, quite envisioned, and she really narrated it lovely.

Sarah: I listened to her narrating Shades of Milk and Honey, which is the first of her Glamourist Histories, which is Regency fantasy. It might, might fall under the umbrella of rrromantasy, now that I think about it. But her, her narration was so good.

Melissa: Yeah. And then I read –

Sarah: So good.

Melissa: – T. Kingfisher’s A House with Good Bones, and she narrated that, and I was like, This is just phenomenal. I need to hunt down everything you narrated.

Sarah: She’s very, very good, yes. I love that. Those are great recs! Thank you!

Melissa: Yeah.

Sarah: So what are your wishes for 2025? What do you wish for everybody?

Melissa: I really hope everyone finds communities and every ones that you can help support and be supported by. I just think that’s going to be important.

Sarah: Oh, support is such a good wish! Yes, I mean it is really nice to just have problems and know that there are people you can help, who will help you with your problems, you can depend on.

Melissa: Yeah. I really have some phenomenal friends, and it’s just been really lovely to just be able to shoot them a random text of, like, Hey, it’s not a great afternoon. How are you?

Sarah: Yeah! And get somebody saying, All right, tell me everything. Tell me what’s going on. I’m, I –

Melissa: Yeah.

Sarah: I always have space for you, is the nicest –

Melissa: Yeah.

Sarah: – form of support, yes.

Melissa: Yeah, Tell me everything, or Do you need just a random cat video?

Sarah: Yeah!

Melissa: Like, Do you need to be…

Sarah: Do you, do you wish to vent? Do you wish to get support? Do you wish to get suggestions? Do you wish GIFs? I can do all of these things.

Melissa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: So did you bring a bad joke?

Melissa: I have my favorite joke. [Laughs]

Sarah: Yay! Okay! I cannot wait to hear it!

Melissa: What is Beethoven’s favorite fruit?

Sarah: What is Beethoven’s favorite fruit? I don’t know.

Melissa: [Sings] Ba-na-na-na!

Sarah: [Laughs] I knew it was going to be something with the Fifth Symphony, and I couldn’t figure it out!

Melissa: It’s, it’s so good!

Sarah: It’s so good! Thank you! Oh, I love it when I can’t figure them out. Thank you so much!

Melissa: Yeah.

[music]

Sarah: Thank you for signing up to do this.

Lisa: It was the highlight of my year last year, so.

Sarah: Yaaay!

Lisa: I’m Lisa, I usually post as Lisa M., and I’m in Houston, Texas!

Sarah: All right! What book or books do you want to recommend?

Lisa: Well, the book that I think rocked my world the most was The Making of Asian America by Erika Lee, and I think it’s a very apt book for right now because it’s a history of Asian-Americans and immigration, and, I mean, I was a history major in college, I have a Master’s in history, and I’ve never read a book that made me say so many times, Oh my God, how did I not know this about my own country? It was the most –

Sarah: Wooow.

Lisa: It goes all the way back to, you know, the first explorers? You know, how early Asians arrived in the Americas.

Sarah: I mean, they’re right over there! If you’re on the west coast, it’s like right there!

Lisa: Yes! But they also came from the east too, like –

Sarah: Yeah.

Lisa: – the British bringing Indians in to work the sugar plantations. Mindblowing.

Sarah: Wooow! That, this sounds like a very powerful book. Did you read or listen to it?

Lisa: I read. I read.

Sarah: Yeah?

Lisa: Yeah.

Sarah: And it sounds like the, it sounds like the writing is really engaging, too.

Lisa: It is very engaging. And it just, you just sit there and you think, What?!

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Lisa: Like learning that El Paso had been a center for smuggling of Chinese folks into the US in the 1890s! The 1890s!

Sarah: What?!

Lisa: My sister lives in El Paso, and she said, They don’t talk about that here!

Sarah: Wow! Wow, the list of things that American history books don’t talk about is just getting longer and longer, right?

Lisa: It is. It is. I’m kind of, that’s one of my goals is to read history that, you know, is outside the regular narrative, shall we say.

Sarah: Yes. Wow, that is, that is really incredible. It sounds like it blew your mind.

Lisa: It did! I mean, it’s not, you know, it’s an uncomfortable read in a good way.

Sarah: Yep.

Lisa: You know, because of (a) what I didn’t know and (b) what the hell did we do to people?

Sarah: Yeess, very true.

Lisa: Yeah. So. I recommend that with all the stars.

She also wrote a book about Angel Island, which is, was the center for Asian immigration – she co-wrote it, I should say – into the US. I haven’t read that one yet, but definitely on my TB, TBR this year, this coming year.

Sarah: This, this sounds like quite a history book.

Lisa: And full of kickass women! [Laughs]

Sarah: I do love a kickass woman!

Lisa: Yes.

Sarah: Do you have any wishes for 2025?

Lisa: Other than time travel –

Sarah: Mm.

Lisa: – mm – all of us being able to get on, have you heard about that four-year cruise?

Sarah: You know, I, I have!

Lisa: Yes! That they’re basically selling as a way to escape – [laughs] – American politics for four years.

Sarah: But, like, I have prescriptions? There is no pharmacy that’s giving me four years’ worth of a prescription! [Laughs]

Lisa: No.

Sarah: You’ve got to be on no prescribed medication to pull that off, I think.

Lisa: I think so, and it, I mean, I think I’d go crazy. But just the, the idea is appealing, but – when I talked to you last year, I talked about the four freedoms, you know, and it –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: – it just seems again so much we need people to be, you know, free from fear –

Sarah: Yes.

Lisa: – free from want, and to have whatever brings them comfort. I’ve been thinking a lot about comfort reading, ‘cause that’s, for me, a, a huge thing, and just, I think people, whatever can wrap them up in comfort to help them especially through the next couple of months, or years!

Sarah: Yes. I love the idea that, of wrapping people in comfort, whatever that means to them.

Lisa: And I’m, what, what you do at SBTB and the Discord, I mean, that’s, that’s the source of comfort for so many people.

Sarah: That’s really lovely of you to say. I hope it is. It certainly is for me! It’s good to know –

Lisa: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – that it is for other people as well. And I, I like to be sort of mindful and aware that when I’m doing the show I am talking to real people. Like, I know all of you are real people listening, which I think is part of what people enjoy about the show.

Lisa: Mm-hmm. ‘Cause when you talk to authors and publishers, you know, ‘cause I get a little starry-eyed around authors, especially, you know, the ones that I fangirl over, but –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Lisa: – yeah, and to feel that connection to people, you know? I love that the community is, is worldwide, too.

Sarah: Yeah.

Lisa: Especially this time of year, to hear from different people all over, around the world.

Sarah: It’s so cool! Like, we, I’ve, I’ve talked to people who are a few miles from me, and I have talked to people where it was 4:30, 5:30 in the morning for them and afternoon for me. I will also say that I have an interview in December that I’ve already recorded with Elizabeth Hoyt, and I was not cool. My inner thirteen-year-old was having a big moment. Like, it took a lot for me to be like a calm grownup because, like, at least eighty percent of me was like, Eeee!

[Laughter]

Lisa: And I love that; I love you and Amanda geeking out and, you know.

Sarah: Thank you!

Lisa: Yeah. It’s fun.

[music]

Josephine: I am Josephine on the Discord, and I am in Maryland, just a couple hop, skip, and jumps up I-95 from you, actually.

Sarah: I have already spoken to three, three separate people in Montgomery County, Maryland. I, I feel like I need to start, like, an in-person chapter or something. It’s kind of great.

Josephine: I’m up in Harford County, but I’m there.

Sarah: Awesome! Okay! I have talked about whether or not, like, I want to host a, I keep thinking about hosting a romance trivia night to benefit the Baltimore abortion fund and the Maryland trans activists, so I have to, like, figure out, like, if I want to do a trivia night where and when and what location is best for everybody, and I’m not good at that, so maybe I’ll put it together in 2025.

[Laughter]

Josephine: As long as it is, like, on the north side of DC, I can make it.

Sarah: Oh, I don’t go south.

Josephine: Yeah, NoVa is difficult to get to.

Sarah: It’s over there? It’s too far.

What book do you want to recommend to everyone that you read this year? And if you brought more than one, that is just fine.

Josephine: I did. I can never pick a single book.

Sarah: I mean, understandable.

Josephine: The quote of my life is the one from, oh, the ‘90s Cinderella retelling with Drew Barrymore.

Sarah: Ever After.

Josephine: Ever – yes. So my, like, the quote of my life is that quote from Ever After where she’s like, Pick a favorite book? I could no more pick a favorite star in the sky.

Sarah: Mm-hmm. It’s too hard.

Josephine: Therefore it’s not, not a single one.

Sarah: So what books do you want to talk about today?

Josephine: My first one is Persephone in Bloom by Kate Healey; it’s a retelling of the Persephone story, really cute modernization. There are some content warnings around abusive parents, so if that is a problem, definitely take care of your mental health and read those first, but the relationship between the two of them is just super cute. It’s an indie; it’s really well done; it’s available on Hoopla, which I love.

Sarah: Yay!

Josephine: Yes. [Laughs]

The next one I have is an adorable little bite of a monster romance that is a holiday tale? It’s called A Minotaur Tale, in Prose: Being a Monster Romance for Yuletide, and that is by Kass O’Shire, who’s a fairly newcomer to this, to the scene. It’s adorable.

Sarah: What a great title! Like, I understand exactly what they’re going for with this title.

Josephine: She, Kass likes to write with subscripts, subtitles?

Sarah: Mm-hmm!

Josephine: And so these are used kind of lightly in this, so if that is a thing that you’re not sure you’re into or not, this is a good way to kind of get a feel for her writing, her writing style.

Sarah: I love this. I love the cover, too!

Josephine: Isn’t it cute?

Sarah: It’s so cute!

Josephine: It’s so cute.

Sarah: It has all of the borders of like a classic fairytale; it looks like embossed with, you know, filigree and swirlies; but then in the middle is this great illustration.

Josephine: I agree. I think there’s a bunch of monster romance authors that are doing really great stuff with illustrated clinch covers?

Sarah: Yes!

Josephine: There have been kind of that classic style that’s a little more timeless than just, like, the people blobs?

Sarah: Yes! People blobs and people not looking at each other or – [laughs] – illustrations where they are posed to look at each other, but it actually looks like they’re looking past each other? That one always confuses me.

Josephine: Yes.

Sarah: These are really good recs. What did you like about A Minotaur Tale?

Josephine: I enjoyed that it was something a little different. So it is a minotaur, but the female main character is a neurodivergent – she’s a dryad, but of a mountain, and so –

Sarah: Hmm!

Josephine: – she lives in a dwarf society, but she’s been different her entire life and it’s very much about being seen for and loved for who you are. And she’s a little grumpy, and he’s a little sunshine, and it’s, it’s just, it’s adorable!

I’m not recommending Swordcrossed, as much as I loved it, because I imagine that, like, you’re going to get like five people at least saying Swordcrossed was their favorite thing, and it was amazing. For anyone who loved Swordcrossed, I want to recommend another fantasy of manners? It’s another monster romance; it’s called The Alpha of Bleake Isle by Ka-, K- – I just have K Moon. Let me look up her full name, because my brain has gone –

Sarah: Oh, it’s Kathryn Moon!

Josephine: Kathryn Moon, yeah.

Sarah: Kathryn Moon, she wrote the, I call it the theater-fucking book, but that’s not actually what it’s called.

Josephine: I mean, yes…

Sarah: The theater-fucking book!

Josephine: It is a theater-fucking book.

Sarah: There’s, there’s fucking, and there’s a theater, lots of theater. So there’s A Lady of Rooksgrave Manor, which is insane, and then The Company of Fiends is the theater-fucking book.

Josephine: Yes. And they are all insane, but she writes her characters so well that you care about them so deeply?

Sarah: Yes.

Josephine: And her worldbuilding is so good that you are just, like, on board.

Sarah: Yes.

Josephine: And so The Alpha of Bleake Isle is fantasy of manners set in a pseudo-Regency, except instead of the eligible bachelor being a duke, he is a dragon.

Sarah: Oh no. That’s really too bad. For me. I think I have to read this. Right now.

Josephine: It’s – oh yeah, no. Definitely terrible. Terrible. I’m so sorry. [Laughs]

Sarah: Oh boy.

Josephine: But everything she does with, like, the characters and the incredible worldbuilding that’s so internally consistent, she does that. This was one of my favorite books I read this year. I think people who liked Swordcrossed will also enjoy this book.

Sarah: Well, thank you for these recommendations. Holy crap! I have increased my TBR substantially. These are really dangerous for me. Like, I ha-, I, I keep adding books; I keep having to, like, return Kindle Unlimited books ‘cause I got new ones I want to read. Yeah, this is, this is a dangerous pastime.

Josephine: Oh yeah. And some of my favorite books that I’ve read in previous years I got through these referrals on the podcast, so.

Sarah: Yay! Awesome! Thank you!

What holiday wishes do you have for 2025 for people?

Josephine: So my wish for people for 2025 is community? Specifically community where you are safe and seen for your whole self.

Sarah: Yes!

Josephine: Yes, it’s so important. The older I get, the more I’m like, It’s just me –

Sarah: Yeah.

Josephine: – and I’m not, I don’t have the patience anymore to pretend to be something I’m not or to, like, hide parts of myself.

Sarah: No, me neither. I don’t have the patience to pretend to be anything other than what I am, which is, like, like I said, a little cranky. [Laughs]

Did you bring a bad joke? It is okay if you did not.

Josephine: I did bring a bad joke; I’m very excited about this.

Sarah: Ex.

Josephine: Where do cows eat lunch?

Sarah: Where do cows eat lunch? Where?

Josephine: In the calf-eteria.

Sarah: Oh no! I was almost there with that one, and I – oh, well played. Well played!

Josephine: [Laughs]

Sarah: That’s horrible, and I love it. Thank you. [Laughs]

Josephine: Yes! [Indistinct]

Sarah: Thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing this, this interview. I love doing these, and it’s so much fun. Thank you.

Josephine: My pleasure. I told myself last year that I was going to do this, and I was really nervous, but I’m glad I did it, so.

Sarah: Thank you! I’m so glad you did!

Josephine: I’m glad I did too, so thank you for being a wonderful host. Thank you for the podcast. It’s, it’s a spot of joy.

Sarah: That really means a lot; thank you.

[music]

Cara: Oh, real quick, I just have a funny story for you.

Sarah: Yes!

Cara: I think two – did you do this two years ago? With the interviewing people?

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Cara: I, I was listening as I, like, cleaned up after the holidays, and I’m listening to this woman talk like, Ah, she sounds familiar! And I’m, then she starts talking about her family, and I’m like, I know her!

Sarah: [Laughs]

Cara: ‘Cause she’d used a pseudonym, and I, I saw her a couple months later. I was like, Were you on Smart Bitches? And she said, Yes, why? ‘Cause I heard you!

Sarah: That’s –

Cara: [Laughs] So –

Sarah: – so funny. No one’s ever told me that before. That’s hilarious.

Cara: Yeah, and it was just like little things, like she has a very distinct voice, and then she, I think you both had kids looking at colleges at the same time. So, and I knew her daughter’s age, ‘cause she had been my next-door neighbor and had moved. And I knew she liked romance, so it’s like, Hmm, I bet that’s Kristy. So – [laughs] – and it was!

Sarah: That totally makes my day. I love that.

Cara: Yeah.

Sarah: Oh, how awesome!

Cara: My name is Cara, and I am from Atlanta, Georgia.

Sarah: Well, hello!

Cara: Hello!

Sarah: What book or books do you –

Cara: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – want to recommend to other people that you read to people that you read this year?

Cara: So I would say the book that – I have two books. The first one is not really a romance. It is Lula Dean’s Little Library of Banned Books by Kirsten Miller?

Sarah: Ohhh!

Cara: And I, I don’t know if this is her second or third book. I really liked her other book, The Change, but Lula Dean’s Little Library of Banned Books is very topical. It’s about a woman in a small town who, she is very concerned about the books in the school library and starts a committee, and as a prank someone – and so she starts her own Little Free Library with books she finds appropriate, and so as a prank someone subs out all the books, takes their book covers, and puts the banned books in her library instead, and so –

Sarah: Oh, I like this person. I, I love this person so much! [Laughs]

Cara: It causes a big ruckus for the person’s mother, who is the school board president.

Sarah: Uh-oh!

Cara: And – [laughs] – so it’s told from different, it’s several different points of view and just how these books affect everybody, and it just has a nice message at the end. I think you’ll have a lot of, Oh, this person’s like that person in the actual news. So that is my first book.

My second book, I, is, has romantic elements, but I wouldn’t say is a romance. It’s call-, it’s an author named Ann Charles, and she has written, it’s her Deadwood Mysteries series, and she is just, she’s independently, she’s self-published. She just released her fourteenth book in this series.

Sarah: Whoa!

Cara: Yeah, and she has other series that all tie into it, but it’s such a weird, like, I feel like if you liked True Blood, you might like these books. They’re not quite as wacky, but they’re pretty wacky. It’s about a single mom with twins, and she’s just moved to Deadwood, South Dakota, to live with her aunt, to start her real estate business, which is not going well, and eventually she finds out that she comes from a long line of monster killers, and she is, takes a while for her to get on board with this, but eventually she realizes she’s pretty good at it, and if she doesn’t, she’s in a lot of danger. So it, I think it does a lot of, like, Black Forest mythology. I haven’t really been able to figure that out, but I just really enjoy them. They’re fun. I think she does her research. You know, I would say the first book, there are children in peril. I know that’s something some people don’t like. After that the kids are basically safe. I really enjoy them, and I think she needs more attention.

Sarah: I really love the era of urban fantasy that’s coming back –

Cara: Mm-hmm?

Sarah: – as indie mysteries where women discover a legacy of power, or they find a power, or a power is bestowed on them, and they’re like, Well, now I have more to do?

Cara: Yeah.

Sarah: Piss off! Like –

Cara: [Laughs] And she’s right. She’s not the best at it at first, but, like, her aunt is super competent; she has a group of friends around. There are, there is a love interest. Her friends and her aunt have potential love interests, so there is some of that, but it’s just a fun little mystery. I, I’m not a Western fan and I still enjoyed the Deadwood elements. And there are other series that all tie into it, so you can try to puzzle it out, what’s going on.

Sarah: I love that the, the first one, nearly, Nearly Departed in Deadwood, won the du Maurier award in 2010 and the –

Cara: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – Romance Writers of America Golden Heart in 2011 for Best Novel with Strong Romantic Elements. That’s a, that’s so great! Like, I love this!

Cara: Yeah!

Sarah: Thank you!

Cara: Yeah, she just is fun, you know. I feel like she’s a safe person to recommend.

Sarah: Especially when the series is fourteen books?

Cara: Fourteen books and there’s some, like, sub-book, like little novellas in between. And then she has another series that’s another – they’re called Executioners – there’s another Executioner in, like, as Deadwood is forming, becoming a city. So she’s got a new series she’s writing with her husband about that, and then she has a present-day, two present-day series, one about the main character’s brother in Mexico –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Cara: – and the other one just a – there’s really no paranormal aspects in this one – some sisters in Arizona. So yeah, they all kind of tie in together. She is prolific. She was complaining, she was talking on Facebook about how she felt so bad that this book had taken so long because her mother had died, and I commented, I said, I have read book series where they take literal decades in between.

Sarah: Yeah, oh yeah!

Cara: Your mother died! [Laughs]

Sarah: Yeah!

Cara: And you took a year.

Sarah: Yeah!

Cara: It’s okay.

Sarah: Wild, right?

Cara: Yeah.

Sarah: Meanwhile, there’s people we’ve been waiting on book four, book six, for –

Cara: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – you know, most of my lifetime. It’s fine! [Laughs]

Cara: Yeah! There’s a, a, there’s a book series where he’s just like, I’m about eighty percent done! And I think it’s been four or five years since the last one. Like, it’s okay –

Sarah: That’s fine.

Cara: – you can take the time you need.

Sarah: Isn’t that wild, though, that little peek into the pressure that indie authors are on, are under –

Cara: Mm-hmm.

Sarah: – within certain genres? Like, you have to do a book or more than a book a year? Wow.

Cara: Yes.

Sarah: That’s, that’s a lot!

Cara: Yeah, and she’s got all – and she had just released one of the other books with her husband over the summer. So she had, it’s not, she, she’s been working very hard – [laughs] – so.

Sarah: What wishes do you have for everyone for 2025?

Cara: So I am the board chair of a little nonprofit here. It’s just –

Sarah: Ooh, what’s the name?

Cara: It’s called Paint Love, and we do trauma-informed arts programming for youth facing trauma or poverty? So we work at a lot of title one schools; we work with other nonprofits. We have a social worker on staff who makes sure that we’re not just plopping crayons in front of kids; we are making sure it’s all mindful and that they’re learning how to engage their emotions and work, manage their emotions. It’s a great nonprofit, and one of the things that we talk a lot about is building resilience in children?

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Cara: And, and teens, and I hope that everybody finds whatever it is that they need to build resilience in themselves. Their community, art, their pets, taking a walk, whatever it is that they are able to do what they need to do to get through 2025 and beyond.

Sarah: That is such a good wish.

Cara: Well, I was really inspired by, I think it was Sneezy. I just listened to that episode yesterday –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Cara: – and I really liked what she had to say about, it’s cyclical. We have to push progress, and then maybe this, you know, what is it, two steps forward, one step back or whatever.

Sarah: Yep. Yep, and we’re taking a big step back, but we can still step forward.

Cara: Exactly.

Sarah: I love this, this nonprofit, too. I’m going to, I’ll link to the website in the show notes.

Cara: Oh, thank you!

Sarah: What a cool program!

Cara: Yeah, we’re just turned ten this year.

Sarah: Wow!

Cara: Yeah.

Sarah: Congratulations! That’s no small feat!

Cara: Mm-mm, and it, you know, since COVID it’s really grown a lot. It was very tiny and, you know, there’s been a need. [Laughs] So.

Sarah: Oh yeah, arts programs are always the first to go.

Cara: What I really love about this nonprofit is that the projects they bring, like, there was an art teacher, didn’t even have a sink in her room.

Sarah: Whoa!

Cara: Yeah. And this was before I was involved, and so they came up with a project, the kids were going to do pottery, and this artist – she’s a, you know, she’s a volunteer artist – she figured out how to bring a portable wheel and hook up water so that they could use the water and the kids could wash their hands and everything. Because this, this teacher had, I think, a dollar per student for the whole year.

Sarah: What?!

Cara: That was her whole budget.

Sarah: Oh my gosh.

Cara: I really like what they do. They have, they’re very creative in their projects, so yeah.

Sarah: I love this. I also really, I think that it meshes well with your wish that there are absolutely going to be local nonprofits doing the thing that each of us is prof-, is passionate about that we can get involved in. I mean, you’ve been around for ten years. People can volunteer and, and help. Like, there’s lots of opportunities to cultivate that step forward and to feel like –

Cara: Yeah!

Sarah: – you’re doing something. This is so cool!

Cara: Yeah, I really feel like if there’s something you care about, you can find it.

Sarah: Oh yeah.

Cara: It’s out there. There are so many – especially in a city like Atlanta and other big cities – there are so much, people have so many ideas.

Sarah: Thank you for this, and thank you for introducing me to this nonprofit. This is –

Cara: Oh, well, thank you!

Sarah: – incredibly cool. I’ll make, I’ll definitely link to this in the show notes.

Cara: Well, thank you. The man who designed our website is the husband of the executive director –

Sarah: Always good when the husband of the executive director can build a website. [Laughs]

Cara: But he, you’ve got to look at all his little graphics. He, he, I believe he did the design for Kid President’s book.

Sarah: Oh, that’s cool!

Cara: He’s so talented.

Sarah: Do you have a bad joke? It is okay if you don’t.

Cara: I looked one up. I love a bad joke, but I never have them, so I looked one up in honor of my dogs who actually behaved during this whole call.

Sarah: Good dogs.

Cara: What do a dog and a cell phone have in common?

Sarah: What do a dog and a cell phone have in common? I don’t know.

Cara: [Laughs] Both have caller (collar) ID.

Sarah: [Laughs] I love that one! I never heard that one! Thank you!

Cara: Oh good! I was like, Oh gosh, I, I, yeah. So I found these long lists; I was like, I’ve seen some of these jokes, but I’m good.

[Laughter]

Sarah: That is perfection; thank you.

[outro]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you again for joining me and signing up. I am having the best time! I think I have at least three more of these episodes because so many of you signed up, and they’re really, really fun, so thank you for making this so enjoyable.

I will have links to all the books; do not worry. They will be in the show notes and they will be on smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 645.

And as always, I end with a bad joke. I didn’t last week ‘cause we had so many, but I feel like I should, you know, I feel incomplete, right? Okay, so:

How do you get banned from the secret cooking society?

Give up? How do you get banned from the secret cooking society?

You spill the beans.

[Laughter] It’s so bad! So bad I love it! Ah,  I love, I love bad jokes, and I love how many of you love bad jokes, so thank you for that.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend –

Child: Bye.

Sarah: – and we’ll see you here next week.

Bye! My child is leaving for high school. [Laughs]

Have a great weekend; we’ll see you back here next week.

Smart Bitches, Trashy Books – [laughs]

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find many outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts. [Still laughing]

[end of music]